S5, Ep 5: Gregory

Gregory D. Luce is a Minnesota-based attorney born and adopted in the District of Columbia. He is the founder of Adoptee Rights Law Center, where he represents US-born and inter-country adoptees on issues involving identity, records, and US citizenship. He is also a co-founder and the executive director of Adoptees United Inc., a national nonprofit adoptee rights organization. A graduate of Boston University and the University of Minnesota Law School, he lives in Minneapolis with his spouse and two children.

Also in this episode, Sarah and Louise discuss The Baby Thief by Barbara Bisantz Raymond.

S5, Ep 4: Allison

Allison Olson is an adoptee from a closed adoption in 1979. She is also an adoptive parent, raising awareness of current harmful narratives in children’s adoption books.

Also in this episode, Sarah and Louise discuss The Baby Thief by Barbara Bisantz Raymond.

S5, Ep.3: Andy

Andy was born Anthony in April 1970 in Paisley just outside Glasgow, Scotland in 1970. Although in a material sense, his childhood was relatively affluent emotionally, he struggled with adoption and having nobody to talk to about it. His persistent loneliness was brought on by his adoption and the distance from his adoptive parents.

Attending a strict Catholic private school made the problems worse as there were no "safe" adults to talk to and it helped to contribute to the emptiness he felt.

Thankfully attending University and moving out really helped as he had a great set of friendships and began to enjoy life far more, however, there was always something missing and he found it really hard to get started on a career as he knew so little about himself.

He met his natural family at the age of 27 after discovering he had three brothers and a sister as his parents had gotten married 3 years after he was born. However, it wasn't quite the solution to the issues he had hoped for.

Also in this episode, Sarah and Louise discuss The Baby Thief by Barbara Bisantz Raymond.

S5, Ep.2: Jessica

Adopted in California in 1975, Jessica's family moved to Pennsylvania around the age of two. As a child, she slowly moved in with the neighbors when she realized her adoptive parents were not able to raise her. Recently, she has reunited with her birth mother and several members of that side of the family. She did not tell her Pennsylvania family about her search until after returning from meeting her birth family in Kansas City. It’s been an adventure ever since.

Also in this episode, Sarah and Louise discuss The Baby Thief by Barbara Bisantz Raymond.

S5, Ep.1: Rita

Rita W. Miller was relinquished into the social service foster care system at 6 months of age. In her mind, Rita believes that her biological mother made this decision, not because she did not want her, but because she wanted a better life for her baby. She believes that perhaps the mother thought that she was in no way able, capable, or possibly would not gain the capacity to raise this child. This is only speculation, as with the lives of adoptees, much of what they think about their early lives are self-imposed scenarios.

Rita remembers being in two foster homes prior to her adoption. In each, she recalls feeling like ‘a little girl, who lived with these people’. Never feeling part of a unit, much less a family. Not receiving the care and love that is normally cast upon a very young child, she lived a lonely and neglectful life. Early on, she learned to become independent, self-sufficient…. a Survivor.

Throughout this early journey, Rita had a social worker, who she believed was concerned, caring, and always working on her behalf to find her a good forever home. This social worker did just that, rescued her to a forever home, with loving, caring, and committed parents. They not only opened their home but also their hearts to this soon-to-be six-year-old child. This chapter of Rita’s life was filled with many

things that were unfamiliar to her, which made the transition to a permanent home quite the adjustment. Although this new family provided most of what she needed, there was always the missing link of knowing who she really was. She worked hard to be who these parents wanted and needed her to be, all the while, feeling awkward trying to meet their expectations. However, their persistence to mold her in their way, committed her to be motivated and determined to look deep within and find who she was meant to be.

Rita is eternally grateful for her adoption; however, struggles remain. She is well aware and proud of who she grew up and prepared herself to become. However, she yearns to know who deep down inside, she really is. In all of this, she realizes that blood relatives will leave us, and we are often saved by strangers who will take us in and love us unconditionally.

Rita is the author of her memoir Determined Destination, Life’s Imperfect Journey of Learning and Love. She is married and lives in Virginia. She enjoys the outdoors, creative experiences, and special moments with family and friends.

Also in this episode, Sarah and Louise discuss the introduction of The Baby Thief by Barbara Bisantz Raymond

S4, Finale

Sarah and Louise have a powerful and meaningful discussion with Gabrielle Glaser, author of American Baby, and Margaret Erle Katz, whose story is the focus of the book.

S4, Ep. 14: Elle

Elle Klassen is a Canadian who was born to a young woman of nineteen years of age in 1970. She was relinquished and then placed with her adoptive family when she was five days old. She grew up in a very conservative Canadian evangelical family where adoption was spoken of as God's plan. Much of her religious background didn't sit well with her, including the narrative around adoption. As an adopted person whose big goal in life was to fly under the radar as much as she could, she never challenged the common narrative surrounding adoption that she grew up with. Several years ago she did a DNA test on a whim & with a hint of morbid curiosity. She wanted to know if her adoption information had been falsified as so many others in the baby scoop had been. As a result, she was reunited with her first family on both her maternal, and paternal sides. Digging for truth led to seeing relinquishment, and adoption as complicated, traumatic events in a child's life. The repercussions of this reach into adulthood, and can never be fully dealt with until it is seen for what it is whether someone has had a "good" adoption or not. Truthful conversations about adoption have become her passion. She now co-hosts the podcast "Pulled by the Root" to help facilitate the conversation about relinquishment & adoption, showcasing the voices of those adopted people, and first parents, who have been previously silenced in favor of perpetuating the idea that adoption is not a trauma or a system of belief that should not be challenged.

Also in this episode, Sarah and Louise discuss the final chapter of American Baby by Gabrielle Glaser.

S4, Ep. 13: Patrick

Patrick Hawes was born in North Carolina on August 10, 1970, and officially adopted in September 1970. From an early age, Patrick knew he was adopted because his adopted mom was Japanese and his adopted father was American but he didn’t look at all Japanese. Patrick never really desired to search for his birth family during his childhood. He was raised in a good home and was well taken care of but there was a distance between him and his adopted mom which led to many of his adoption issues including loneliness, fear, and pain. He often thought of searching for his birth mom but being in the military and moving combined with the adoption laws in North Carolina made it extremely difficult and he often wanted to give up! Patrick finally began searching for his birth family at the age of 45 and through the magic of Facebook was able to find his birth mom, sister, and maternal Aunt- he has been in reunion with them since 2015 and while there have been many ups and downs, he wouldn’t change a thing.

Also in this episode, Sarah and Louise discuss American Baby by Gabrielle Glaser.

S4, Ep. 12: Janet

Janet M was born in Virginia in the late 1970’s to a 16-year-old mother. At 6 weeks old she was placed via a closed adoption into a loving home with her parents and older adopted brother. She always knew she was adopted but it wasn’t a topic that was discussed openly or often in her family. Not knowing her origin story fueled her curiosity around the subject of pregnancy and birth. She became fascinated with childbirth and the beautiful relationship between new moms and their babies. She became a labor and delivery nurse in the year 2000 and has been helping new moms and babies ever since.

Janet always had a genuine curiosity about her biological family, especially her biological mother. But she never had the courage to pursue finding and connecting with any of them. It wasn’t until she was in her mid-forties that she started to “come out of the fog” by listening to podcasts about adoption, exploring adoptees on social media, and reading The Primal Wound. This past year for Christmas her husband bought her an ancestry DNA kit. The results revealed 4 close family member matches that led her to her biological mother and half-siblings. They reunited very recently and together are learning to navigate this tender new relationship. Janet lives in the Pacific Northwest with her husband of 21 years, 3 teenagers and 2 dogs. She loves to travel, hike, and spend time with her family.

Also in this episode, Sarah and Louise discuss American Baby by Gabrielle Glaser.

S4, Ep. 11: Rivi

Rivi Shocket was born in Baltimore Maryland in 1987. She was adopted two days after she was born and had an open adoption. From the time she was a toddler, her adoptive parents would take her to spend time with her birth family (mom, dad, siblings, cousins, and grandparents) every couple of years. Throughout Rivi's teenage years and into adulthood, she developed strong bonds with her immediate birth family--especially her mother. Her birth mother struggled with addictions, so it was difficult to have a consistent relationship with her, but she cherished the times and talks they had up until her passing in 2016. In the past few years, Rivi has learned a lot as far as who she is, where she comes from, and even where she gets certain personality traits from. Along with learning some fun facts about her birth family, including their musical talents, she has also learned the traumas she was handed, being an adoptee. Although having an open adoption has answered many of her questions, the abandonment fears persist, as well as dealing with some of her own addiction traits. She is still learning how to deal with her relinquishment in general, but she has come to believe that writing songs about her experiences will be her saving grace.

Also in this episode, Sarah and Louise discuss American Baby by Gabrielle Glaser.

S4, Ep. 10: Terrie

Terrie Novak was adopted as an infant in 1967. She and her adopted brother, Gene, grew up in the security of a loving family and in awareness of their adoption. When Terrie was 18, thanks to the heroic efforts of her first mother, she received her bio family's contact information. Today Terrie is privileged to a rare abundance of love shared with her first mother, biological siblings, as well as her adoptive parents, and her own bio kids. During the long solitude of the pandemic, Terrie was compelled to write about what it means to make a family under the traumatic circumstances of coerced adoption. After two years of interviews, research, soul searching, and writing, she published her debut novel: Jules Fae, A Story of Adoption and Reunion.

Also in this episode, Sarah and Louise discuss American Baby by Gabrielle Glaser.

S4, Ep. 9: Mike

Mike Berman was conceived in Bay City, Michigan in November 1944 and was born on August 8, 1945 in Nashville, Tennessee to an 18 year old woman who surrendered him for adoption to the Tennessee Childrenʼs Home Society the day after his birth. Mike was adopted by a Jewish couple living in New York City and he was raised there. In February 1950 his Mom gave birth to her only natural child, Mikeʼs younger brother. Mike never considered searching for his birth parents until he began to see the online ads for DNA testing and finally began his search in late June 2017. In addition to DNA testing Mike discovered that because of the appalling crimes committed by the TCHS under the direction of Georgia Tann he would be able to acquire his complete adoption record from TN. Mike received those records in late September 2017 and they proved to be a treasure trove of information. In addition to his genealogical research Mike also began to read about adoption and the psychological havoc it leaves in its wake. He has also read many of the books written by other adoptees and has benefitted from the insight and understanding they have achieved, each from their unique experiences. That self-education continues and Mike expects it will go on for as long as he can keep at it. Mike is currently in happy reunion with an older half-brother and a younger half-sister, all three being the only remaining children of their common birth mother, and all of them born on a Wednesday (refer to the childrenʼs rhyme MONDAYʼS CHILD). Mike and his sister have met three times in person, most recently earlier this month. His brother lives in Rhode Island and they havenʼt met but they all keep in touch by phone and social media. Mike has been retired since 2014 and lives in Central Texas. He has been married twice, divorced once and is currently separated from his second wife. Mike has two sons, one daughter, one grandson, and one son-in-law who has the same first and middle name as his adoptive brother. All of them live in the same town and get together regularly for holidays and birthdays and for the occasional random reason. Mike has a 5 year old female cat, Clara, who graciously permits him to share her house in exchange for full-time litter-box maintenance. Mike says, “Life is good.”

Also in this episode, Sarah and Louise discuss American Baby by Gabrielle Glaser.

S4, Ep. 8: Mireille

Mireille Landry is an interracial adoptee who, alongside her identical twin sister, was adopted at 3 months old and raised in a predominantly white area by white adoptive parents. Originally intended to be a closed adoption, at the age of 12, the twins coincidentally met their birth mother at the mall while traveling to a nearby city for a soccer game. This unexpected encounter marked the beginning of their reunification journey, which led to meeting most of their maternal and paternal biological family and a trip to Zambia, Africa in 2011 to meet their paternal grandparents and extended Zambian family.

Throughout this journey, Mireille's adoptive parents have been very supportive, fostering a positive relationship with their biological and adoptive families. Today, Mireille and her twin sister have met and established meaningful connections with most of their biological and adoptive relatives. Mireille often expresses her belief that one can never have too many people who love them

Also in this episode, Sarah and Louise discuss American Baby by Gabrielle Glaser.

S4, Ep. 7: Faith

Faith Brady was born on 22 June 1969 and adopted one month later when the US landed on the moon. She has always known she was adopted and had a great relationship with her adoptive parents. Her parents then adopted another child, a brother, 3 1/2 years later. In 2015 she had to have open heart surgery and it was then that she became very interested in her medical history. Ancestry found a 1st cousin that let her know that ALL of the women in her family died before they were 60, including her bio mom. This set Faith on a path of discovery to find out her history, which is still unfolding as of this airing.

S4, Ep. 6: Chris

Chris Stearns is Navajo and was adopted in the mid-1960s before the Indian Child Welfare Act existed. His mom was part of the federal Indian Relocation program which moved Native Americans away from reservation to large cities as part of a nation assimilation policy. Chris began his life in the Los Angeles County foster care system and was adopted when he was 2 years old by a loving white family in New Jersey where he was raised. Chris chose a career as an attorney fighting for Native American rights and spent many years in Washington, D.C. representing Indian tribes as well as working in the House of Representatives and the Clinton Administration. Chris eventually moved to Washington state where he now serves as a Representative in the state legislature. He also was able to access his sealed original birth records but has never been able to find his birth parents. He now lives in Auburn, where he and his wife Pamela have two adult daughters and a grandson.

Also in this episode, Sarah and Louise discuss American Baby by Gabrielle Glaser.

S4, Ep. 5: Nancy

Nancy Davis was born in Florida in 1949 and adopted by a family from New York. The adoption was private and no documents were available to investigate her origins. An Ancestry test 6 years ago revealed that Nancy had 5 siblings in North Carolina from her birth parents, 3 brothers, and 2 sisters. It has been an amazing journey for her and has helped fill many of the “unknowns” of her heritage. She works as an EMT in her current home in Connecticut and thoroughly enjoys sharing her story.

Also in this episode, Sarah and Louise discuss American Baby by Gabrielle Glaser.

S4, Ep. 4: David

An unofficial adoption. David Enker was born in Amsterdam in 1970, following the Summer of Love of 1969. Relinquished a few months after birth to another family in The Hague, his birth mother, a university student at the time, had hoped to retrieve him after her studies. Although never officially adopted, things turned topsy-turvy when his new family refused to let him go. A bumpy reunion unravels in reverse

This unusual beginning, together with a life-long quest for an identity, belonging and meaning form the backbone of his recently published memoir "Phantom Parents". A heartbreaking and heartwarming work, addressing universal questions through illustrations, photographs and short stories.

Recently diagnosed with young onset Parkinson's Disease he endeavours to embrace life to the fullest. David is a creative currently living in the Dutch coastal city of Haarlem with his English-Irish wife and young son.

Also in this episode, Sarah and Louise discuss American Baby by Gabrielle Glaser.

S4, Ep. 3: Annie

I’m Annie O. O stands for my last name. O is round. It’s a hole I still live in, that I’m not allowed to escape. Why the fuck is that how it has to be?

Adoption has a long history, with a narrative built around it being a celebrated act of love, of charity and saviorism. I rejoice for those who experienced the best of that narrative. However, there is a growing number of investigations and reports that show, for many, adoption is not and has never been, what people are led to believe.

Why must I go to court to gain access to my identity?

Why was it considered necessary to erase my past?

Why are the adopted treated as second-class citizens?

Why are we all repeating this flawed ideology?

Why are only some people considered tabula rasa?

Where the fuck are our mothers and fathers?

Also in this episode, Sarah and Louise discuss American Baby by Gabrielle Glaser.

S4, Ep. 2: Mariela

Mariela Andersen is the author of "Home Sweet Casa: A Journey to The Universal Heart". Her book is the story of her reunion with her biological family in Colombia after being separated from them at birth. Mariela’s book takes the reader along with her as she discovers more about her past than she could have ever imagined and dives deep into the multifaceted layers of what makes her who she is. Adopted or otherwise, everyone is sure to benefit from reading her story.

Also in this episode, Sarah and Louise discuss American Baby by Gabrielle Glaser.

S4, Ep. 1: Paige

Paige Strickland is an Ohio “Baby-Scoop Era” adoptee, teacher, mom of two and grandmother of three. She is the author of two memoir books, Akin To The Truth and After The Truth. She is currently working on a YA (young adult) book-in-verse version of her books. Paige also teaches Zumba (tm) Fitness, enjoys working in her garden, loves the beach, reading and spending time with her family.

Also in this episode, Sarah and Louise discuss American Baby by Gabrielle Glaser.